#3: Nonviolent Communication, ft Kristal Fellinger

Hello there. No, Musty. My name is Nicole, and this is the beautified Podcast. Episode three Nonviolent Communication If you're practicing mindfulness in marketing in business, if you want to know more about communicating your value in context to your audiences, this episode is for you. Gentleman Air Today would be crystal feeling and I couldn't be more threat. Chris was a German into English translator copywriter from Seal Beach, California Now living in Germany, we share a passion for both reliving and great writing. In fact, Breslin, her aiding superpower John, 18 this year for the couple writing Center school. And we had such a blast that invited her. It's one of my first guests for the belief that podcast today we left deep into a different kind of checking your words. We talk about the concept of numbered and communication, its benefits for entrepreneurs and how to go from inspired to implementing. Let's dive in.

Oh, okay. Welcome to the show, Krystal Sellinger. Esteem, calling of my colleague of mine. I'm so happy to have you here super excited to do this with you. And today we'll talk Mumbai in communication, which is a topic that personal introduced me to. It has been mind blowing. So, um, before we have in, um, let me just ask you the three questions crystal that I'm always throwing out there. Um, first of all, how do you drink your coffee?

How do I drink my coffee? Um, I usually first thing in the morning. I usually drink my coffee black because I do this intermittent fasting thing. So I basically skipped breakfast or eat very, very late breakfast or an early lunch, As you might say, Um And then the rest of the day, I will drink it with coconut milk or no milk or sometimes regular milk, depending what we've got in the fridge on. I just got an arrow press, which is a very exciting little coffee maker for geeks. So I'm really enjoying that.

What's good for you live in. But that's amazing. And I love coconut milk. It's just so sinfully good, isn't it?

It is.

Okay. Question number to describe your morning routine.

Um, so I've got a couple of different versions of my morning routine because I have a small kid, and she, um, tends to sort of sense it with her sixth sense when I'm not in in the bedroom. She still sleeps in are in the same room with us. So, um, one version of my morning routine is when I do actually managed to get up and get out of the bedroom before she does. And then I get to go and, ah, sit alone in the kitchen and enjoy a cup of coffee in silence and spend a bit of time journaling, maybe meditate for 15 or 20 minutes. She's still asleep at that point. Then I get to do get my workout in which I've been doing these really fun workouts from a company called, um, Gold medal bodies. And they have they based their workouts on animal movements. So there's the bear, the fraud and the monkey on. So I'm I'm I'm more flexible than ever. And I'm hopping around like a frog first thing in the morning, and I'm loving it. Um, what

do you think you're capitals enjoy? Because I do it, Mom.

Yeah. She thinks she thinks it's hilarious. She loves she loves it. She like? Look, Mama, I could do the frog to hop on that

spell. So cute. Yeah. You know how you kind of, like, slid in there Something that I would I would like to make. Super Pierre, we'll have our perfect morning routine. Right. Um and I know we talked about this before because we talk a lot of personal nice. Um, but for me, it's like maybe some left in good weeks. It's four or five days. I make them. Jean. And the lessons admitted three out of five, but it didn't go out from there having one perfect day and then going, which without it. So I kind of, you know, went out there, and I'm making 60 to 80% so yeah, I like it. I think it's human to not have it in 100. Yeah, well, we want to go on. What's good for you kind of strike for that?

Yeah, for sure. For sure. I know. I follow. I follow a lot of kind of personal development people, and they're always like, Yeah, get up at five o'clock in the morning and, you know, do all of the things before breakfast. Like that doesn't work in real life. At least not for me.

Well, I do think if you hold yourself today and kind of strive for that. I can really Only from you been life changing. Morning, Tina. Do journaling and have and yeah, you have. Like, I do take the doubtful walk first thing in the morning, and that's like 30 to 45 minutes an hour, depending on the way. No move. Yeah, Just outside. In nature. Just, uh, get the summit rest. It's kind of amazing. Yeah. I'm not there June every day. Um, it's just I think it's healthy and, you know, just just honest to share that it's human to have. You know, these words are working. Yeah, maybe every day, Which is a good thing. I love everything, and it's just gonna do the best you can. And don't Stress is it's not happening that they're OK. Question number three. How did you follow that? How did you find your path and follow your purpose? And I know you have had an exciting thing in the wings, So let's let's talk about that.

Yeah, well, kind of related to what I what I just said about, you know, that that I would I follow a lot of personal development people and I was always really inspired to to have some kind of a morning routine. Um, and as I was starting my business, you know, I, um I noticed that a lot of the people who I follow anyway, a lot of the self development people, it's all it's all men. And they've got this very kind of aggressive like, Yeah, get up. Seize the day 5 a.m. Do all the things every single day. You have to have a strict routine to make things work. And I I was the mother of a one year old, Um, yeah, and trying to start a business. And my kid was not anywhere close to sleeping through the night at that point in time. And, like my ability to get up and do things in the morning before she got out of bed was very, very limited. It's gotten a bit better now. I can sometimes get up before her, but at that point there was just no way on. I felt like there is there is no, um there is no personal development thing out there for me as a mom. Like I want to develop myself. I want to become a better person. I want to get my business on the road and running. I want to be mindful. But all of these all of these people in the personal development space are are not living my life there obviously living a life where they're sleeping through the night and able to get up. You know, whatever. I'm not the time of the morning. I know you're a 5 a.m. person as well, but anyway, and so I and I also had a journal that I have gotten, um, as you know, in my own attempts to to do daily journaling. And it was a journal in planner. And the thing the idea was awesome. Um, you know, you write down what you're grateful for in the morning, and you plan out your whole day. But this this thing had it was so detailed. It had details every half an hour on planning my 9 30 with my 10 o'clock in the morning by 10. 30 in the morning. And did I do sports today? Did I work out? Did I spend quality time with friends? And it was wonderful, but but so much detail. And it wasn't. I wanted it to work for me, but It wasn't working for me as a CZ apparent. It was just too much. And I My day was not that regimented. And there was no way that it could, because having a kid requires a lot of flexibility. And so I developed the thing that I needed, which kind of came out to be the just one thing journal. And it's It's just a very relaxed, very simple mindfulness journal and planner. That's really minimal. So am I wanted something that Mom's can use, that we'll let them have just a couple of really key tasks and that's it. And that was what I needed at that point, and I still I still love it. I still don't don't liketo have tons of tasks that I write down for myself because it's just it's just too much. I like to give myself the flexibility of of just focusing on the most important things and kind of just letting everything else take care of itself. So it really forces me to set priorities when I think of think of things that way. And so yeah, my my path to kind of personal development and running a business led me to develop this this journal project that I'm working on now. So that's kind of my side, my side project. But I've just started. Just launched

the labor of love. Basically, Yeah. Yeah. Well, first of all, Chris for, you know, being a mom and being a businesswoman, I know it takes it takes tons of energy and all things. Right, So hats off to you. I'm like, I'm in all everyone who does both. And I think that you can only grasp it in its entirety if you were yourself, mom. Right? And I'm not. So I'm just, you know, looking from the outside is that and, like, heads off to all of you ladies who pulled it off engines? Of course. Right. We're going to the death of their Andi. I love what you said about, um, in theory, there's amazing. Like like there's an amazing over array off great planners and journals out there. Um, I mean, I could probably have a I have to have to count them. And you have more than a handful of them that I started for we go to you, or maybe even a month. Right now. Let's go through them and they're usually a year. Years were awful stuff, right? Yeah, I would fill in 10 to 20 pages in a year and

1/2. I

was starting out being super excited and you know, the more detail, the better. And then, you know, rely on and you're like, Well, I don't really have time to get all down, maybe even though it won't be smart, right? Um hum. Well, that's that's really great from you. And I love that he created one that's perfect for for you know, Mom Preneurs. So, yeah, we're based in other words, a must. So the just something journal on didn't just mentioned right now, if you give us thing and and use it to christen, I, um, go over Teoh mi five dot com forward slash crystal, and you will find the PDF journal template that you can download and print out and do your thing with and Krystal? No, no, he is very generously. So it's absolutely free. No strings, and you can test drive. There's just one thing during up, and, you know, let us have your feet back on that and enjoy it and make it yours. So thank you. So much for that crystal.

Thanks, McCall.

And with that, let's dive into today's topic, which is no grand communication and young absolutely. You know, just following your lead there, the one thing I I've just shut it down when we first talked about it. Waas the kind off, um, where the base is on it. Um, then that just tell you I got this right. Right. So that basis, no matter communication on the gold, this is to create the necessary trip. Everyone's needs met compassionately.

I think that's a really great definition. Um, that Zach actually really, really good s o. The idea behind nonviolent communication is exactly what Nicole said. It's about creating a quality of connection. And the book written by Marshall Rosenberg has a lot of very specific ways of phrasing things. Um, but what he does say is that it's not just about the words you use. The most important thing is having empathy for the person that you're talking with and not judging them, but trying to be open to to understanding them and understanding their experience in their feelings, and that when we have conversations in that way, I'm trying to understand each other that we're able to meet each other's needs better and find find solutions that work for both for both parties. And so he's Ah, he's, um what is he, a psychologist? A negotiator? A mediator, essentially in the man is, ah, psychology communications expert. And he he wrote, wrote this this book based on all of his experiences in all of these different fields that he he's involved in. Um,

well, the book is called My Communication. Yeah, Genesis millions off copy sold. So yeah, not not like a brand new thing. Been out there for a while. We are a couple of things that I wouldn't just one of the research for today's show, but I found that I wanted to just, you know, share that kind of Oh, my gosh, that blew my mind. Where then? One he let Mr Rosenberg went out there and met with people in war zones and met with them on the grounds that it was like, No, it's not like this year. Last year, this year's years ago. I'm here with a neutral ground, um, and kind off, make them see, see each other on a human's ever write a kind of yeah sparked an empathy for each other and that, like humanness in the conversation. That's one thing he talked about doing one of his his his recorded training's a recorded talks that he that he could give and and I was like that. And he talked about that, and it became clear that this happened at a time that today we pretty open to all that time on Cardinal rule, though it's not right. But what if you could, if you like, in from the outside and call up a bit out there? But this will that it's having the nineties where things were like like memory communication, that new protest stuff. We're not as popular or, you know as common. And he talks about going out there and his team, the people he teaches you and you go through his training. They go out there and they work with politicians. Diplomats. Yeah, they teach them how to communicate on a level that is goal oriented, right, and takes everyone's needs and feelings into account. Yeah, loved it. Yeah, speaking off needs. And this is something I know you are super deep into this topic, so I just like give it to a straight on the basis up that I got from Mr Wilman was that all human beings have the same needs and they come through in anything do including communication, right? Oh, let's see what this thing can you tell us about those season you all share?

Yeah. So just just to go back real quick, basically, the idea behind nonviolent communication is that what we are all doing in all of our communications all day long is that we are trying to get our own needs met sometimes more effectively, sometimes less effectively, and that people people can take different approaches to getting their their needs met. Um, sometimes people take a very combative approach because they feel like that's what they have to do to be heard. And, um, what he talks about is is even when someone is being combative, trying t empathize with, um trying to tell them. I hear what you're telling me. I am listening and and then trying to really identify the needs behind what they're saying, and so he identifies a lot of different needs. But I think what we could we could all look at real quickly. The massive hierarchy of needs. Um, everyone should probably be familiar with that more or less, but that essentially we have our basic needs, which is things like food, water, warmth, rest safe than than safety and security. And then we get into our psychological needs such as belonging, um, close relationships, friends feeling loved, Um, the needs that we have for our self esteem, feelings of accomplishment, feeling appreciated. And then, um, the needs that go towards self fulfillment, which is things like achieving your full potential, being involved in creative activities. We need we all. I'll have all of those needs and we're all trying to meet different ones of them at different points in time. And those air basically the same needs that, um, that Mr Rosenberg mentions in the book. So he talks about the need for autonomy and integrity. Interdependent. So things like acceptance and appreciation and closeness Community play fun, spiritually communion, recognizing beauty and harmony in the world. And so and so on. So he's got quite a quite an extensive list of different needs. People might have it any any given point in time, but essentially the the idea behind his his whole theory is that we can get a lot further by helping other people meet their needs and by communicating our own needs very clearly and specifically. So a lot of the times we go around and we aren't even really entirely aware of what needs were we're trying to meet, like oftentimes we feel annoyed with other people because of, um, we think we're annoyed because of something that they've done like, um, your partner comes home late from work and used to say to yourself, I feel really annoyed because you came home so late from work when actually what's really going on there is that you have a need, maybe for more connection with them, to spend more quality time together with them. And you're not necessarily annoyed because they came home from work late, but because that meant that you couldn't spend that quality time with them. And so a lot of what he talks about is recognizing those those deeper needs that lie beneath the first level of annoyance or frustration or anger that you might experience. Um, she like you talking to Cole or any questions, I feel like I'm going on.

Oh, so so You know, I'm just listening and, you know, you blow my mind. Basically. So what I get from that is that we like the, you know, usually within a perfect in this stuff. We left the clarity off. What are need isn't like you getting our feelings in that situation. Yeah, it was kind of full going there for almost attack moles.

Yeah, it really it happens so easily that we do go into attack mode accidentally, and maybe not even really attack mode. But, um, yeah, we just We have all these feelings going on all day long. We don't always take the time to reflect on what's really going on behind them. So what he talks about is sort of a two. There's two levels of it. One is, um, as a practitioner of nonviolent communication, um, communicating my own needs. What I would, for example, try to do in a conversation would be to say, the kind of the basic formula is I am feeling X and I need why would you be willing to Z And So, for example, I am feeling very annoyed because I see dirty clothes all over the floor. I'm gonna give this example of my child. I used this with her all the time. It's great. Um, I'm feeling annoyed right now because I'm seeing dirty clothes all over the floor. Would you please picked them up and put them in the in the wash, in the in the laundry basket for me? Um, and it's really like it's the weirdest day. Would you say I am feeling this as as kind of, ah, reasoning behind it. People are suddenly just so much happier to help with whatever it is that you want help with, um, and I don't I don't use. He even recommends using the phrase Would you be willing to, even when dealing with things like picking up laundry off the floor? Even when talking to a small child? I find that a little bit extreme. Uh, but But that's that's That's how he how he suggests doing it. And I mean, when speaking with adults, that is really a great way of going about it. My basically like my suggested my proposal for how he could make me feel better. Would be Would you be willing to do this thing? And the thing is, when you phrase it like that. People are just immediately disarmed. You know, nobody feels attacked by the question. Would you be willing to? And they have an opportunity to say no. Um,

that's a question if you don't tell them to do. Yeah, yeah. You know what? I level? Yeah. And you can actually call communication, right? Yeah. Yeah. Mortar.

Yeah, Exactly. Exactly. And I mean, it works when you're talking about, You know, um, who's cleaning up the kitchen more often with your partner to? I feel like I'm doing the dishes every single night. Would you be willing to do the dishes on? Uh, I feel annoyed because I'm perceiving that I do the dishes too often. Would you be willing to do the dishes on Tuesdays and Thursdays or something like that? You know, and it's just a nice, calm, peaceful way of communicating with people, but also specifying why, Why you need that? And he goes into a lot of detail about things like, um, you know, you could We had that example of you Came home late from work, like you condone. Um, you consort of use. You can use his his formula in a very skilled way you can use it in a less skilled way where you say, I'm annoyed that you came home from work, Would you be willing to come home earlier? That's maybe a little bit less effective, but it's still, um, a step in the right direction. The book goes into great great detail with tons of examples and quizzes, so you can see if you're really understood, understanding all of the points that he makes. The book is wonderful, and it's a really short, pretty short read, but just extremely

interesting. It's not a huge book. It's a page turner for sure now that you do you right? And you told me you you've read it like, you know, like sitting on the bathroom tile because he couldn't go. Yeah, s so so So it's a quick read. It's got tons of off off tangible advice in a way that makes you think, huh? It's like, welcome to my life, right? It could be like I read it. I felt like every single sentence could end was Come on, Nicole,

right? Yeah, yeah. No, it's such such a wonderful book. I actually I'm I'm planning to take an actual in person training for this? A TTE Some point if there's a there's a group in Berlin here that offers them, But I'm really looking forward to

that, don't you? Yeah,

Yeah, I will. I will. And then so the other. So though the how you communicate your own needs is one thing that he talks about that's extremely helpful in the other thing that he talks about is helping others who are not practicing nonviolent communication. I have never heard of it before just in your regular daily interactions with people, um, using nonviolent communication to to make your conversations better, to create a better connection, better relationships with people and to kind of defuse situations that might be uncomfortable. And he's got a couple of really good examples in there. But, um, that essentially, when when someone says when someone makes a statement, there is a way of sort of reflecting back to them what they've just said, What you what? You hear them saying? And, um, he gives an example of someone's someone in a volunteer organization speaking with an older colleague, and the older colleague is reading in the newspaper, and all of a sudden she blurts out. Um, you know, the problem these days is that young people just think it's okay to have Children outside of wedlock. I think we should bring back the shame of having a baby outside of wedlock or something along those lines in the The person felt absolutely shocked by that statement, especially in the context they were working in a, I think was a food food bank. And she felt really uncomfortable with that statement that here called older colleague had just made. And, um, her first reaction was to just not say anything and to just, you know, judge the person for for what they said. But then she she applied these principles of non violent communication and she she said, Um, so it sounds like it sounds like you You feel that things were better back when there was, um, more shame around having a child out of wedlock. And that gives the opportunity for that that that that gave the colleague the space to kind of elaborate on what she was saying, Um, s so it wasn't an attack of I think you're wrong for saying that it was just a assessing. I hear you saying that you think things were better? Did I understand that correctly? And the colleague then just freely started talking in elaborating. Yes, because things were just Things were just more stable back then. And I feel that babies and Children should have, ah, a stable family environment that they grow up. And I don't think that, you know, they should be forced to grow up in a single parent home because it's so difficult for the for the families and for the Children that way. And so they continue than

the entire organization.

Exactly. Exactly. So it gave the colleague the chance to explain herself, and then they were able to have a deeper conversation about it and and come to the conclusion the understanding that actually the colleague wasn't so much in favor of shame. It was just that she wanted to see more stability in family life. And that was something that both people could agree with. Um, and so again, this was actually what happened there, right? They identified the need. She had the need to feel that the world is a stable place and she had the need to to see um, stable families around her that that would make her feel like everything was right in the world and her her statement was or her thought that, you know, shame should be used as a tool to create that stability. Well, maybe that maybe that particular strategy of shame isn't one that we would all agree on, but that need underlying it is something that everyone could agree on. And that's something that he really talks about. A lot is that you can observe without evaluating you can observe people's feelings and that all feelings and needs air valid. But the question is, which strategies do we use to meet those needs? And that, you know, a really important thing is to just find strategies that work for everybody in order to meet everyone's needs, and that once those underlying needs are identified, that's a lot easier for people to find common ground and say, OK, well, we both agree that this need is there. Um, now what strategies can we agree on that everyone is okay with in order to meet those needs? And it just makes things so much less combative.

I mean, well, the thing is, blowing my mind here is that their sanity. I mean, that's something that's not new, but it's it's great to just look at it and, you know, deciphered Almost how many layers there are two. Any conversation? Yeah. Yeah, it from that. Could be Somebody just gave that the first thing that if I were in the room with a person with a statement like that, I what a move.

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, that would be awful. Awful. I don't know how I would react

so, but then you were you were you, uh, like, uncover what's actually believed that which is like, um, you know, if nothing else, at least a gallon of Alan need or about feeling right and the way he kind of teaching us to uncover, Like like like layer layer, right to just, you know, yeah, years happened anytime. The another layer another layer. It's a coin where, as you say it, he teaches us that all feelings are valid. And if nothing else, definitely like it is basically anything out there that anyone says ever right. You can get to find where you use your least at thirties Collins that that feeling that need they have, right? And then from there there. That's like knowledge to work together and to communicate in the truth of sense. Right? Oh, so the we talked about clarity of purpose, and it's clear request for watching one needs, but in a way that's not in order but rather communication at eye level, which is amazing. Yeah, about the I actually would love to love you, to love for you and then just a little bit more on on the observation versus evaluation, because first understood that it is. It means, um no criticism. Well, you taught me differently or you told me differently. Rather,

Um well, as far as no criticism goes, I mean his his whole. His whole idea is that that, um, feelings, people's people's feelings are valid. And, you know, like we might have this tendency, for example, if somebody is, is if somebody is, um maybe expressing anger or frustration that tends to make us as the recipient of that anger. Frustration feel really uncomfortable. And I know that I personally have this tendency to get angry right back or get frustrated right back and try to kind of block that from from coming in ah to my reality which isn't very effective, right? That just leads you to have two people who are feeling angry and frustrated about whatever the situation is. Um and he he talks about, um, acknowledging the other person's feelings. And this is, um, this is also something that comes up a lot in books, on on parenting and communicating with small Children. It's amazing how much you can learn about communicating with adults from reading about kidding with small Children. It's really that when we're having a strong emotion, we have also a need to have that emotion recognised and that when when someone is is expressing distress, when we recognize that distress and acknowledge it, especially when we acknowledge it verbally and don't judge them for it. And don't tell them you shouldn't feel that way that they they suddenly kind of relax. And they I think a lot of people, especially if they're feeling distressed about something, that they're feeling a big negative emotion about something that they will express that, that negative emotion, more and more aggressively and loudly until it is recognized, and that when we when when someone says I see that you are really, really frustrated about this right now. You're so mad that I came home late. You're so disappointed that we didn't get to spend time together when they get that that acknowledgement and they see that the other person still accepts them. Um, just despite this this way that they're feeling right now, then they just they just relax and there's this this kind of opening up that happens. And then they can They can let let go of that feeling a little bit and sort of move beyond it and have some kind of a productive conversation about it. So our tendency is often when someone's feeling frustrated or negative, we tell them like, Oh, yeah, but you shouldn't feel that way. Look at all of these. You know, I'm feeling super frustrated with my job. I'm really upset with the way my boss treats me. And I hate getting up early in the morning. That's all just, um, and our response might be, Yeah, but, you know, your job pays really well And look, you've got actually a really short commute. I mean, look at all of the good side of things. Well, that's not what the person wants, right that minute they want some acknowledgement that they're having a tough time right this minute. They would probably like some acknowledgement of the way that they're feeling. And it's the same thing when we're having a conversation about, um, you know, any any, any needs that we need to get met in our life. We want acknowledgment. We want recognition. And we don't want our conversation partner to judge us or criticize us for the way that we're feeling. We just want them to accept us the way we are right now. And once we have that, we can move on to finding strategies to fix things.

And what a valuable, you know, thought a lesson. Isn't that right? Yeah. A lot of times when we, you know, have a friend come over and, you know, tell us about, you know, being depressed. You're feeling bad for something, being letting excess off world. And some of us have the solution because you're not, you know, maybe it's a job thing. You're not in there. Your office replicate our anything about it. But just acknowledging and being there, it's making them feel connected. And I was here. Yeah, they can change the world for someone, right? Yeah, s o what One of the like, worthwhile, worthwhile. Um, and valuable lasted that long. Um, and then off course that the talks about feel request to like to just work on yourself to be super clear in what's the underlying need? You just want to communicate and just not let people orders or some be aggressive or attack but actually, like, communicate your feelings in a way that the other person can understand them. I need to do something with them or not, right? Yeah. And then also using very ready for yourself. You're before your stuff talking uselessly between observation and evaluation. I think that's super vertical. Yeah. You think this is a fact? And this is how I see the world. Right? So that's like a difference. The shoes different. Yeah. Um, so I love that, um, so something have in terms of off the book. It's a must read for me. So, like, you know, I'm actually let's let them the adding to the book in the in the show knows if you go to come for such crystal, you'll find a Lincoln to the ball so you can find it and there's a free except there, you know, they think they're so just go over there and see that way. You also don't have a creepy after knows their effect on one in meddling. So we've had come forward slash cripple. But let's let's before we, you know, wrapped them with this topic when I would love you to do crystal is share some some tangible invites. Like something too to walk away with, Right? So what role does number and communication playing far from entrepreneur, right. So why should I? All isn't us Take note in terms off like a business environment opening? Yeah. Entering life.

Yeah. Um, it's it depending on whether you have ah ah, colleagues that you're working with the people who you subcontract Thio. It's great for communicating with anyone in your business life. It can be wonderful for, um, talking with, uh, especially people who were working for you. That's Ah, that's just it's just a wonderful way of getting things done in an office environment of communicating about what you know, anything that they're doing that you don't like, um, approaching more difficult, tricky conversations without things getting combative. So so that that's veteran right. Sorry.

They get any, like, office environments of

any kind of officer partner?

Yeah. Frustrated and stressed out over work. Things can get aggressive. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I know you mentioned you mentioned, like, you know, the one thing that we all dread is on from earthly A negotiating prices.

Yeah. Yeah, it can. Also, it can also be applied to things like price negotiations. Maybe you maybe not so much his specific phrasings about I'm feeling. And I need that might be a little bit weird on a price negotiation, but the the idea idea of just of just empathy and understanding what the other person needs And I think as faras um, communicating your value and understanding essentially, that your customer has a need to essentially in their business life. Their need is to end up with more money in their bank account at the end of the month, basically, and, you know, feel good. Well, accomplishing that goal and so that makes your role is a service provider. Um, actually quite clear. And also your marketing techniques, right? You want to communicate to them how they can meet those needs that they've got. So you can, um, empathize with the fact that they want to know that you are a nice person to work with. So you can present yourself, as you know, someone who's friendly, communicative, enjoyable to work with. And you can also understand that their need is to urn a surplus of cash at the end of the month. So you have to essentially show them how you are going to help them to make money. So, yes, maybe your service is cost them money, and every business owner will say, Oh, yeah, you know, I don't want to spend that much, and then you can co overcome that objection by showing them how they're going to spend whatever 1500 euro with you. But it has the potential to make them much more than that in the long run, and that makes it a good investment. And when you just kind of keep those those needs in mind, it makes your whole marketing approach kind of a lot more understandable. And you don't have to feel like you're in a lot of a lot of especially new business people or business people. In general, people hate marketing themselves. They feel like Oh, it's a hard sell. Oh, I'm trying to scam them out. I mean, no one. You know, we feel bad asking for money. A lot of people feel bad asking for money. They feel bad trying to ask for what they think they're worth. And when you start approaching things from a value mind set, the value you're providing to the customer and the value that they're getting out of your products, then you can see where it's. It's perfectly fine to ask for money because you're you're providing them with more value in the end. And, um, it doesn't have to be this this combative Ah um, situation off, you giving a number and them saying no and trying to undercut you. You can just approach it from a whole a whole different perspective,

and I would love to love to look at that. Like Electra, different levels never number one. And I know how that connects to when we talk about, you know, ethical, marketing, marketing as a force for good, right, because it's all about you have a purpose and you turn in person to offer and you find the people who need accepting what you have to work through what you bring to the table. And there's over communicating your value, your offer in context to there lifetime movie. I usually say because Well, Kevin on lifetime movie, right? Yeah, you could you could you offer context to their business. Sachin I whatever it is you're you're doing if it serves a part of whatever it is you're selling, you communicate that in terms off how they benefit. What were they get away from that, right? Like how? What did they take away on? It could be anything that brings success or swiftness or safety to business. It could also be something that I have some role in causing something as as, you know, a small as wonderful, beautiful stationary because I'm a sucker for that. So that's what I was hoping that that something So when here you strain your your your service is when you create your offer of the planetary society in context to, um to your clients wants and needs and their of your life. So having that their level off, um, empathy that, you know, we talked about today that that's just a major game changer there, standing with the other person needs is, you know, it's a huge thing in marketing, but it's also shoots thing when you get to the point that we all grab just either pitch or price negotiation, right to pay on your business situation. But when you go into the conversation, I'm knowing what the other person wants leaves and listening to them voicing those needs a book up there Once that was up with a whole different level of communication and Jack dragged in the war zone. I'm out of that right, Um, so I love how that how that kind of you like, even though it I don't want a pitch because not when someone knows what they wanted to know. You have it. It's all about, you know, the human connection and, you know, finding out of your rage fit and then created win wins and kind of exchanging values to everyone's benefit.

Yeah, absolutely.

So thank you so much was like, I mean, that's like, that's a huge thing to just reflect on, you know, from a national no record of you. Um so crystal. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's been a blast, as always. It is best good on. Nothing will be the vessel because we already talked about the next topic. And, you know, I only know if they're already super about it. Um, but more that, of course. Later, Um, for this nurse again, I just won't mention it again. In case you didn't take a look at this. Great. You just go to Blue Feather Come forthat. Crystal is K R I S t a l and you'll find the show notes with the session. Um, vision exit off the book that's, like, absolutely free. Just taken it with three extra. And of course, we'll find as we mentioned before. Um pretty, a journal template from from Krystal's. I'm just one thing journal that she doesn't know. That's her leave off love. And she would sit down in that very generously, so just don't want it printed out making your own and uses. Um, Crystal. Thank you so much for being here today.

Thank you, Nicole. It's been a blast.

It's been wonderful. Um, and you guys you you know, you listen to that. We've had our cast. You see the rather hear the lifestream every Friday at noon, Jonas. Life being the chap coming with questions on Ben. Every week on Wednesday, the notion that you accept goes out and you can find us. I have a podcast loss wi fi dot com. There's just so much for this thing in, um, stay happy, stay safe. And may the space between where you are now and where you wanna be inspired

by No. Okay, all right.